(FYI: This is Patrick Jr. again.)
There has been reference made on Pat Sullivan Blog in the comments about how strange and slimy that "bastard" Dr. Buttar is, especially when you watch him on that TV news interview. This train of thought originated from the comments at Orac (Doesn't) Know.
I've posted my entire reply there from 8/30/2005 4:57 AM EST as a blog post here. (And keep in mind that you are reading it out of context from the rest of the comments, so some of it may not make sense.)
---
Altunarail, thanks for the link to the television story about Dr. Buttar. I had not seen that before (and I'll comment on it in a bit), nor have I ever met Dr. Buttar in person. But as noted on my Dad's blog Dr. Buttar certainly does not seem to me like the wacko, jerk-off, asshole that you all would like him to be. If that is one of my incorrect "Firmly Held Beliefs," then I'll just have to be wrong.
Though could not the same EXACT argument be applied to all of you for continuing to believe that Dr. Buttar is Satan's slimy minion?
So unless I'm missing something, any further arguments based on "Firmly Held Beliefs" should be considered moot.
Bob Dylan said, " ...you're gonna have to serve somebody..." I guess you're gonna have to believe somebody as well. Quite frankly, I'd rather put my belief/faith/hope in Dr. Buttar's "magic snake oil" than Or ac, HCN, Altunarail, THE Probe, JM O'Donnell, Autism Diva, Skeptico, etc.
(Speaking of quotes, did anyone ever say, "A mind is a difficult thing to change" ?? Because it sure is! :)
Back to the TV report about Dr. Buttar. Off the top of my head, from a punk kid with a B.S. in Marketing, and with "one arm tied behind my brain" (LOL...I know you guys are going to go apeshit over that one!), here are the holes I saw in that story:
1)"The 6NEWS Investigators found experts who said the so-called "cure" is more hype than hope."
Right off the bat, you can tell this story has a bias. Ok, well at least we know that. Thanks for being up front and "candid" about your feelings 6NEWS investigators.
2)"'They were selling hope,' said Laidler. 'For parents who are desperate, hope is a very addictive drug.'"
Well, isn't that why anyone buys anything? Not because they need it, but because they want it and they hope it will make them feel better?
(For more on why people really buy, point your browser to Seth Godin and Laura Ries.)
3)"Laidler is an Oregon M.D. and has two sons who were diagnosed with autism. 'Most of his improvement came after we stopped everything,' Laidler said."
Stopped "everything?" Hmmm...Obviously it is implying that he stopped TD-DMPS and "improved," but that is too much ambiguity for me to call it anything close to conclusive.
4)"'Those folks have never even shown that it's even absorbed through the skin,' Laidler said.
In a rebuttal to that comment Buttar said, 'No, we haven't done that. Why would I waste my time proving something that I already know is working innately?'
'So these parents, these desperate parents are buying expensive skin lotion,' said Laidler."
They put DMPS in skin lotion??? I didn't know that!!
(Btw, THI$ is some expen$ive $kin lotion!)
Now, I will readily admit that I flinched when I saw this reply from Dr. Buttar on video because I too would love to see an absorbability test or whatever it's called. But I'm not willing to throw out the baby with the bath water given that this "skin lotion" brought his own boy back to him (along with ~30 of his other patients).
5)"And he's [Laidler] not the only one questioning the effectiveness of chelation. 6NEWS showed Buttar's presentation to Jim Bodfish, a PHD and autism researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. When asked if the treatment worked, Bodfish said, 'At this point we have no evidence that chelation is a significant treatment.'"
Oh really? Dr. Bodfish, what about the 16,790 parents (73% of 23,000) from this survey who reported that mercury detoxification helped more than any drug, supplement, or special diet?
What about Dr. Buttar's own son?
Since Dr. Laidler got to talk about his son who "improved" after "stopping everything", how come Dr. Buttar didn't get to talk about his son, who is cured and is now doing long division in his head and learning prayers in 2 languages? The 6NEWS reporter could have easily asked that question during the interview and it would have been EXTREMELY relevant. So much for journalistic integrity! On we go... (And sorry if I am boring to you. ;-)
6)"'When there's no known cause, that's this vacuum that opens up this black hole that allows snake oil salesmen to move in,' said Bodfish."
My goodness why does everyone keep calling this snake oil?!?!
However, you gotta love Dr. Buttar's reply: "'If this is snake oil and what they're doing is medicine, then I choose to practice snake oil. And I have no embarrassment with it,' said Buttar." Either Dr. Buttar is off his rocker, or he REALLY BELIEVES IN THIS STUFF. It's gotta be one or the other guys.
7)"Dr. Joe Stegman has seen hundreds of patients for autism in his Kannapolis practice, but when it comes to mercury he said, 'I have yet to have one (patient) have any detectable (mercury) in their blood.'"
SERIOUSLY? As if Dr. Stegman never heard of a Doctor's Data DMPS Provocation test. (The link goes to my Dad's DMPS test in 2002 from page 106 his book). And Dr. Stegman has never heard anyone talk about how mercury does NOT roam freely in the blood, but rather goes into the organs?
Does this guy even wash his hands between patients?
Or ac, tell me you at least know about DMPS Provocation testing and how mercury doesn't just float around in the body. I mean, give me (and the scientists that I'm pulling this from) at least an ounce of credit!
8)"So ask him [Dr. Stegman] about chelation as cure. 'I wish it were. I wish we knew what caused autism. But I think it's a lie. I think it's a sham,' Stegman said.
'If this was a sham then I'll tell you what. This is the best sham that has ever been put on. I think you'd have to agree with that,' replied Buttar."
And Dr. Buttar would be one HELL of a liar!
9)"Buttar said one bottle of drops costs more than $150 and will last more than a month. He said parents should commit to using the drops for at least two years."
Ah yes, there it is. ***MONEY!*** The most evil thing in the world. Nay, the root of all evil! If someone is trying to make money on something, git em!
(To be accurate, the Bible teaches it is the LOVE of money that is a root of all kinds of evil. But I'm pretty sure you guys aren't big fans of bible quotations, so I'll cut it out now.)
But let's look at it for a second. $150/month over two years is $3600. In comparison to other products that may or may not have shown clinical efficacy, is $3600/per autistic child, spread over 2 years, a good or bad price? I can't be one to judge since I have no children and no idea of the range of treatment costs, but I think that puts some perspective on this image of "Dr. Buttar, the greedy bastard."
(I was hoping to list just 9 things for Buckley F. Williams at The Nose On Your Face, but alas...let this final remark go, I could not.)
10)"The drug contained in the drops has not been approved by the FDA for use in the United States."
Because everyone knows that unless a company has spent hundreds of millions of dollars proving the benefit and safety to the FDA, it's just not safe. (Vioxx anyone?)
Now as far as I can tell, that statement is false because DMPS is approved by the FDA for use by compounding pharmacies, according to Docket No. 98N-01821. AND YES, I realize that this is a preliminary draft from 1998, but I did two searches on FDA.gov and gave up on the idea of sifting through FDA memos. Sue me!
Altunarail, you also said about me and my Dad, "Not that anything could change their minds... they are trying to sell a book and have a business based on chelation or selling vitamins - something alt med." We've addressed the "Firmly Held Beliefs" issue already.
But allow me to point you to the part towards the end of my Dad's post in caps with bold letters that says, " DISCLOSURE"...
We've already said up front that we've got nothing to hide!
Or ac, I apologize for my diskspace consumption and lighting another fire on your blog that is sure to elicit numerous replies. Blog moderation on vacation must be a huge PITA! ;-)
- Patrick Sullivan Jr.
RELATED STORIES ON PAT SULLIVAN BLOG:
Dr. Buttar on IV EDTA Chelation and the Autistic Boy's Death (8/29/05)
Autism - If not mercury, then what? (8/31/05)
Dr. Buttar on the Empirical Evidence of Chelation (9/1/05)
(FYI: This is Patrick Jr. again.)
There has been reference made on Pat Sullivan Blog in the comments about how strange and slimy that "bastard" Dr. Buttar is, especially when you watch him on that TV news interview. This train of thought originated from the comments at Orac (Doesn't) Know.
I've posted my entire reply there from 8/30/2005 4:57 AM EST as a blog post here. (And keep in mind that you are reading it out of context from the rest of the comments, so some of it may not make sense.)
---
Altunarail, thanks for the link to the television story about Dr. Buttar. I had not seen that before (and I'll comment on it in a bit), nor have I ever met Dr. Buttar in person. But as noted on my Dad's blog Dr. Buttar certainly does not seem to me like the wacko, jerk-off, asshole that you all would like him to be. If that is one of my incorrect "Firmly Held Beliefs," then I'll just have to be wrong.
Though could not the same EXACT argument be applied to all of you for continuing to believe that Dr. Buttar is Satan's slimy minion?
So unless I'm missing something, any further arguments based on "Firmly Held Beliefs" should be considered moot.
Bob Dylan said, " ...you're gonna have to serve somebody..." I guess you're gonna have to believe somebody as well. Quite frankly, I'd rather put my belief/faith/hope in Dr. Buttar's "magic snake oil" than Or ac, HCN, Altunarail, THE Probe, JM O'Donnell, Autism Diva, Skeptico, etc.
(Speaking of quotes, did anyone ever say, "A mind is a difficult thing to change" ?? Because it sure is! :)
Back to the TV report about Dr. Buttar. Off the top of my head, from a punk kid with a B.S. in Marketing, and with "one arm tied behind my brain" (LOL...I know you guys are going to go apeshit over that one!), here are the holes I saw in that story:
1)"The 6NEWS Investigators found experts who said the so-called "cure" is more hype than hope."
Right off the bat, you can tell this story has a bias. Ok, well at least we know that. Thanks for being up front and "candid" about your feelings 6NEWS investigators.
2)"'They were selling hope,' said Laidler. 'For parents who are desperate, hope is a very addictive drug.'"
Well, isn't that why anyone buys anything? Not because they need it, but because they want it and they hope it will make them feel better?
(For more on why people really buy, point your browser to Seth Godin and Laura Ries.)
3)"Laidler is an Oregon M.D. and has two sons who were diagnosed with autism. 'Most of his improvement came after we stopped everything,' Laidler said."
Stopped "everything?" Hmmm...Obviously it is implying that he stopped TD-DMPS and "improved," but that is too much ambiguity for me to call it anything close to conclusive.
4)"'Those folks have never even shown that it's even absorbed through the skin,' Laidler said.
In a rebuttal to that comment Buttar said, 'No, we haven't done that. Why would I waste my time proving something that I already know is working innately?'
'So these parents, these desperate parents are buying expensive skin lotion,' said Laidler."
They put DMPS in skin lotion??? I didn't know that!!
(Btw, THI$ is some expen$ive $kin lotion!)
Now, I will readily admit that I flinched when I saw this reply from Dr. Buttar on video because I too would love to see an absorbability test or whatever it's called. But I'm not willing to throw out the baby with the bath water given that this "skin lotion" brought his own boy back to him (along with ~30 of his other patients).
5)"And he's [Laidler] not the only one questioning the effectiveness of chelation. 6NEWS showed Buttar's presentation to Jim Bodfish, a PHD and autism researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. When asked if the treatment worked, Bodfish said, 'At this point we have no evidence that chelation is a significant treatment.'"
Oh really? Dr. Bodfish, what about the 16,790 parents (73% of 23,000) from this survey who reported that mercury detoxification helped more than any drug, supplement, or special diet?
What about Dr. Buttar's own son?
Since Dr. Laidler got to talk about his son who "improved" after "stopping everything", how come Dr. Buttar didn't get to talk about his son, who is cured and is now doing long division in his head and learning prayers in 2 languages? The 6NEWS reporter could have easily asked that question during the interview and it would have been EXTREMELY relevant. So much for journalistic integrity! On we go... (And sorry if I am boring to you. ;-)
6)"'When there's no known cause, that's this vacuum that opens up this black hole that allows snake oil salesmen to move in,' said Bodfish."
My goodness why does everyone keep calling this snake oil?!?!
However, you gotta love Dr. Buttar's reply: "'If this is snake oil and what they're doing is medicine, then I choose to practice snake oil. And I have no embarrassment with it,' said Buttar." Either Dr. Buttar is off his rocker, or he REALLY BELIEVES IN THIS STUFF. It's gotta be one or the other guys.
7)"Dr. Joe Stegman has seen hundreds of patients for autism in his Kannapolis practice, but when it comes to mercury he said, 'I have yet to have one (patient) have any detectable (mercury) in their blood.'"
SERIOUSLY? As if Dr. Stegman never heard of a Doctor's Data DMPS Provocation test. (The link goes to my Dad's DMPS test in 2002 from page 106 his book). And Dr. Stegman has never heard anyone talk about how mercury does NOT roam freely in the blood, but rather goes into the organs?
Does this guy even wash his hands between patients?
Or ac, tell me you at least know about DMPS Provocation testing and how mercury doesn't just float around in the body. I mean, give me (and the scientists that I'm pulling this from) at least an ounce of credit!
8)"So ask him [Dr. Stegman] about chelation as cure. 'I wish it were. I wish we knew what caused autism. But I think it's a lie. I think it's a sham,' Stegman said.
'If this was a sham then I'll tell you what. This is the best sham that has ever been put on. I think you'd have to agree with that,' replied Buttar."
And Dr. Buttar would be one HELL of a liar!
9)"Buttar said one bottle of drops costs more than $150 and will last more than a month. He said parents should commit to using the drops for at least two years."
Ah yes, there it is. ***MONEY!*** The most evil thing in the world. Nay, the root of all evil! If someone is trying to make money on something, git em!
(To be accurate, the Bible teaches it is the LOVE of money that is a root of all kinds of evil. But I'm pretty sure you guys aren't big fans of bible quotations, so I'll cut it out now.)
But let's look at it for a second. $150/month over two years is $3600. In comparison to other products that may or may not have shown clinical efficacy, is $3600/per autistic child, spread over 2 years, a good or bad price? I can't be one to judge since I have no children and no idea of the range of treatment costs, but I think that puts some perspective on this image of "Dr. Buttar, the greedy bastard."
(I was hoping to list just 9 things for Buckley F. Williams at The Nose On Your Face, but alas...let this final remark go, I could not.)
10)"The drug contained in the drops has not been approved by the FDA for use in the United States."
Because everyone knows that unless a company has spent hundreds of millions of dollars proving the benefit and safety to the FDA, it's just not safe. (Vioxx anyone?)
Now as far as I can tell, that statement is false because DMPS is approved by the FDA for use by compounding pharmacies, according to Docket No. 98N-01821. AND YES, I realize that this is a preliminary draft from 1998, but I did two searches on FDA.gov and gave up on the idea of sifting through FDA memos. Sue me!
Altunarail, you also said about me and my Dad, "Not that anything could change their minds... they are trying to sell a book and have a business based on chelation or selling vitamins - something alt med." We've addressed the "Firmly Held Beliefs" issue already.
But allow me to point you to the part towards the end of my Dad's post in caps with bold letters that says, " DISCLOSURE"...
We've already said up front that we've got nothing to hide!
Or ac, I apologize for my diskspace consumption and lighting another fire on your blog that is sure to elicit numerous replies. Blog moderation on vacation must be a huge PITA! ;-)
- Patrick Sullivan Jr.
RELATED STORIES ON PAT SULLIVAN BLOG:
Dr. Buttar on IV EDTA Chelation and the Autistic Boy's Death (8/29/05)
Autism - If not mercury, then what? (8/31/05)
Dr. Buttar on the Empirical Evidence of Chelation (9/1/05)